The Walker Family

Quintin and Querida Walker.

STEVE GOLDSTEIN: The killing of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer is a reminder of the danger black men face when dealing with police. A minor traffic stop that could lead to a warning for a Caucasian driver can end up in violence if the driver is African American. It's one of the reasons black parents sit their children down for what is known as “the talk,” which includes strict advice on how to act if they come in contact with a police officer. We wanted to learn more about “the talk,” so I'm joined by Querida Walker and one of her five sons, Quintin, who is the oldest at 21. Querida, please tell us about “the talk.” How did you approach it?

QUERIDA WALKER: “The talk” for me was — how can I put into words? — normal, which should not be normal. It's a very sad reality. I remember not even having to discuss with my husband, "We're going to sit down with Quintin and now we should have a talk at this moment in time." It wasn't something we just said we're going to put on the family calendar and plan it out.

GOLDSTEIN: OK.

QUERIDA WALKER: It happened just out of normal family dinner talk conversations.

→ Arizona Voices: Race, Diversity And The Black Lives Matter Movement

GOLDSTEIN: Was that because of any personal experience you had had, or your siblings had had or anyone else? Or was it just simply known among African Americans that this is something that law enforcement is looking at you differently?

QUERIDA WALKER: All of the above. We had the talk about being pulled over, and how to survive being pulled over as a black man in white America, because you are judged, unfortunately, on the color of your skin, and you may receive treatment that's unfair to you. And because of the color of your skin, you may be deemed as a threat to that officer pulling you over. And these are steps that you have to take so that you can survive and not let someone push your buttons, so that you can come home.

GOLDSTEIN: Quintin, did you know that — whether it was formally put on the calendar, as your as your mom put it, that, in fact, that it wasn't — did you know that a conversation like this had to happen?

QUINTIN WALKER: I didn't know to begin with. But after, after everything and the discussion and kind of coming to realization with it and then watching videos and seeing that — being involved with social media, definitely came a realization afterwards that it's kind of a necessity. And definitely something my dad told me that I would have to teach my son as well later on in life.

GOLDSTEIN: Can you remember a little bit? I'm sure it was not just yesterday, but can you remember a little bit about what your parents said to you in terms of — was there a formal list of things?

QUINTIN WALKER: You know, I was definitely young, so everything at the time did seem like, confusing and unfair, and it was more so just a lot of questions that I want to answer. And like why? You know, why do I have to do this? Why do I have to do this? And they told me, you just have to be respectful. Say, "Yes, sir." Be still, don't move. And things are really geared towards the whole goal of it, which is, just kind of stay alive. Just make it to the next day. Don't let the ticket or whatever it is ruin your day.

GOLDSTEIN: Yeah. Have you had to put that into practice?

QUINTIN WALKER: Of course, yes. You know, just things to help offset any pre-bias that they have. Because at any time you could be judged by the color of your skin, depending on the officer, the situation. So you have to — you're already behind. You're already in the negative. So you have to do things to make it so that you're perceived as a normal human being. So you have to precursor some of those things. You have to sit still, like, "I don't have any weapons." You have to — if you're reaching for your ID, or if the cop asks for ID or registration — you have to let him know, "Hello, sir. Now I'm reaching for my ID. It's in the glove compartment. There's no weapons in the vehicle." Keep your hands on the wheel, roll down the windows. If you can, pull out your ID and your registration before you get pulled over, that way you don't have to make any movements. Answer everything that he needs. I feel like, just some rights that you are supposed to have that we can't. Things like refusing your ID. If there is an officer asking me to search my vehicle, I know — I think you're supposed to have like a warrant or something, but me being a black man, I have to say, "Yes, sir." Just things like that.

GOLDSTEIN: All of us, whatever color we are, when we see the flashing police lights and sirens, we all get a little bit nervous. But most folks who look like me wouldn't have to worry about it beyond that. Could you describe what it feels like beyond the a little nervousness, the little stomach ache when you know that based on “the talk” and based on being a young black man, what it is like to have a police officer pull you over?

QUINTIN WALKER: It is extremely nerve-racking. It is very scary. It's life or death. I'm even just trembling a little bit, just talking and thinking about it. No exaggeration. It is truly scary. You see these killings of young men that look just like me, you know, are doing things just like me. They're, they're in school or, you know, trying to make better for themselves and they're just killed. So it is, it is very scary to, to think that when you see those red and blue lights that it could be the last moments of your life if things go wrong.

QUERIDA WALKER: Yeah. It's like... You're absolutely right, Quintin. It's like an anxiety attack. I remember even just driving one day and my girlfriend, who I consider to be my sister, she's a Caucasian woman, and she was in my passenger seat, and a cop was behind me. And I had a full-blown panic attack, and she had no idea what was happening to me. I got distracted, I had to pull over to the side, and I got turned around on where I was going, and I just had to pull over. And I never discussed to her why I was breaking down, why I was having pretty much like a nervous breakdown. I was just terrified that this cop was gonna pull me over. Just because he has the ability to pull me over and because I have no rights. As a black American, when I get pulled over by a police officer, I do not have any rights.

GOLDSTEIN: Querida, as you mentioned, you have five sons, Quintin being the oldest. Is there a time in their lives that “the talk” has to happen? Is it getting earlier and earlier with each son because of the situation we see in America now?

QUERIDA WALKER: “The talk” is ongoing. It's constant. Talks of being discriminated against is ongoing. My kids experienced discrimination as early as 3 years old. It can happen in youth sports, where they're treated unjustly and unfairly because in of the politics there and the color of their skin. So the talks, they expand beyond just being pulled over by an officer. The main difference is that our lives are taken by this person who has the ability to take it and not serve any jail time for murdering us. So it starts very early.

GOLDSTEIN: Quintin, have you thought about that? If you become a dad, how significant “the talk” is going to be for you to give?

QUINTIN WALKER: Most definitely. Like she said, it starts very early with not just the police brutality, but being aware that you're a black male or a black woman. You learn that very [early] on as a kid in that things are going to be different. I know that my mom was always telling me, I'm just gonna have to work twice as hard in everything I do just because of the color of my skin. And I know that, being older — these are some of the things that I would definitely carry on to my future generation, because it doesn't look like things are moving too greatly in a good direction.

GOLDSTEIN: Could either of you foresee a time in this country where “the talk” doesn't have to happen?

QUINTIN WALKER: Mom, you wanna go first?

QUERIDA WALKER: That is a great question. The optimist in me says yes, but the pessimist in me says no. That there's always going to be some sort of racial bias, because we're all seeds. We all come from seeds. And the history of what has happened from my parents' parents' parents was carried down to them just like seeds. And it gets carried to me, to the next generation. And so these things are taught. And just as I've been taught the inequality of what our race has gone through, history-wise, I still feel that youth are gonna be taught the racial hatred and the racial biases.

QUINTIN WALKER: I would have to agree. I like to be optimistic, and I would definitely love to see a day where we can all be treated equally and judged by the content of our character and not the color of our skin. But, just being realistic and looking at the way things are going, it doesn't look too bright. Racism and prejudice is very much still alive. I am proud of our country for coming a little more aware to these situations. It's sad that it takes so many deaths of all these young black men — and women as well. The names that we could list goes on. But I'm proud that we're, they're taking small steps. Hopefully one day we can get there.

GOLDSTEIN: Querida and Quintin Walker, thank you so much for an important, enlightening conversation, I appreciate it.

QUINTIN WALKER: Of course. Thank you.

QUERIDA WALKER: Thank you.

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